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Post subject: FAQ: Cut Outs... punch holes, corner cuts, saw cuts, etc.  PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 07:53 AM
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Back in the '70's and '80's (maybe in the '60's, too, but that was before I was old enough to really know) there was this wonderful thing in many department stores called the "Cut Out Bin"...This was usually a large "bin" filled with albums (once in a while you could find one with '45's) priced for a pittance...anywhere from $.99 to $2.99 at a time when albums ranged anywhere from 8.99 to 14.99 or more.

Granted, this was a dumping ground for albums that didn't sell very well, and many albums were examples of the vilest dreck.

Yet...this was where I found my UK copy of "The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown" on Track Records. "Thank U Very Much" by The Scaffold, "Cellophane Symphony" and "Travelin'" by Tommy James & The Shondells and many others. Had I known when I was a mere tadpole of a teenagers, I also saw quite a few original U.S. Apple LP releases.

Many, though not all, of these records had a hole punched through the cover (and sometimes through the vinyl, near the center of the disc), and many of the covers were "cut" (thus the term "cut out") to designate that they were now a cut-rate item being sold at a loss.

I've noticed that in some cases, original, non-cut albums that we may have found in the cut-out bin are now fairly collectible. What would be a general rule in determining how much lower a "cut" item would be than a "non-cut" item. This takes into consideration that the album cover and vinyl were defaced in some way, either with a punch-hole or a cut in the cover. Not all albums in a cut-out bin were defaced, though most were.
 
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ValdezOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 11:22 AM
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My info and experience dictates that a cut out, or cut corner, or punched hole, takes an LP grade from M or NM down to VG+, VG generally speaking. When you get down to VG- or less the cutouts aren't much of a concern or issue anymore.

Any other opinions?
 
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whirlingdiscOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 12:12 PM
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I'm not sure that the cut out drops it a full grade, although it would certainly command somewhat less than a non-defaced cover. I think it depends on the type of delete marking as well. A bb hole or punch out is less invasive than a saw cut or a corner snipped off, all of which were common practices.

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ShadySamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 12:15 PM
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I've seen a few with grommets in 'em. Wonder how that affects grade/value...
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 12:29 PM
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Hey All,

It seems that we are all in agreement that the value has to go down....When you lower the price for a record, for the most part, you drop one grade....VG+ to VG- or
NM to VG+.....The defacing of the cover/record seems only logical to lower it by a grade.....

Just my $.02 worth

Adios....Bye....Aye

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jackcaptureOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 02:29 PM
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I agree that one grade level drop is the general rule. Whirl is right though, that a small staple is much better than the huge holes punched in some of them.
Grading systems that are in place that mention cut-outs also lower one level regardless of the method.
I addressed it in my grading system here:
http://www.recordcollectorsguild.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=19887

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nealumphredOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 04:54 PM
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Any form of "cut out" should devalue an album somewhat. The variations on the nasty things that were done to LPs to designate them as cut-outs (deletions from the catalog or stock overflow) range from the rather inventive:

In the late '60s, Warner/Reprise "shot" a metal rivet into the upper left corner of deleted LPs. Awful then; somewhat nostalgic now. And much bettter than what was to come. . .

 
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nealumphredOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 05:06 PM
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I HAVE NO IDEA WHY THIS COMPUTER LAUNCHED MY UNFINISHED POST PRIOR TO A COMMAND, BUT IT DID (ABOVE). Here's my completed post:

Any form of "cut out" should devalue an album by varying degrees. That is, the rarity of the LP should dictate the percentage of devaluation that a cut-out should have over an intact copy (see TORI below).

The nasty things that were done to LPs to designate them as cut-outs -deletions from the catalog or stock overflow- range from the rather inventive to the desecrational. For the former: In the late '60s, Warner/Reprise "shot" a metal rivet into the upper left corner of deleted LP jackets. Awful then; somewhat nostalgic now. And much bettter than what was to come. . .

For the latter: During the late 70s and into the 80s, jackets had a portion of the upper right corner removed. It could be tiny (and most of us could live with it for the price) to downright sadistic (a huge chunk would appear bitten off... )

As for valuation: Copies of Tori Amos' more-or-less first album, Y KANT TORI READ, with a corner nicked are worth about 1/5 (20%) of copies with the jacket intact.

Then there's the problem of "promo holes". Ho hum. . .

Hope this helps!

NEAL


 
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greyhoundOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 05:08 PM
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I bought many LP's from the "cut-out" bins back in the '70's. I still have a couple that I've never opened. Personally, I think a full grade reduction is a bit harsh on the assumption that the vinyl grade is more important than the cover grade.

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whirlingdiscOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 06:32 PM
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greyhound wrote:
I bought many LP's from the "cut-out" bins back in the '70's. I still have a couple that I've never opened. Personally, I think a full grade reduction is a bit harsh on the assumption that the vinyl grade is more important than the cover grade.


That's also been my experience when selling LP's on e bay...delete holes seem to have a minimal effect on final value. Although, to the purist, such distractions would certainly be unwelcome. But the purists seem to be in the minority...

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