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nealumphredOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 08, 2005 - 08:04 PM
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Rhetorical Question: Take two copies of the same album that are in all other ways identical. . . but one has a cut-out mark and the other does not. Then, offer them up both up for auction AT THE SAME TIME AND IN THE SAME VENUE/MEDIA/WHATEVER and guess which one is gonna get both the highest bids and the most bids?

Hope this helps!

NEAL
 
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annaloogOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 12:29 AM
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nealumphred wrote:
... In the late '60s, Warner/Reprise "shot" a metal rivet into the upper left corner of deleted LP jackets....

I've noticed metal grommets/eyelets installed in both Warner/Reprise and Elektra cutouts. I suspect they had a common distributor. It takes a little work, but they can be removed (carefully) leaving only a small, less-noticeable hole behind.

I'm not sure which was worse, the cut corner (which could affect any of the four), or a deep saw cut which weakened the corner sufficently to create a crease.
 
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ScottOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 02:24 AM
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Well from what Ive read and seen, the cut outs are promotional copies. They were ment for promotional use, like radio or club use. Some promo records have songs that the store bought copies dont come with. Some have the same songs. Some claim to belong to the record company and not for sale, even tho the record company never wants them back. As for value, I dont know but I do own a few of the punch hole/ cut out albums.

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whirlingdiscOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 06:27 AM
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nealumphred wrote:
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Rhetorical Question: Take two copies of the same album that are in all other ways identical. . . but one has a cut-out mark and the other does not. Then, offer them up both up for auction AT THE SAME TIME AND IN THE SAME VENUE/MEDIA/WHATEVER and guess which one is gonna get both the highest bids and the most bids?

Hope this helps!

NEAL


Yes Neal,
I think we're all agreed that the cut-out affects the final value...the debate was to what extent it lowers the grade...whether it warrants marking it down by a full grade.

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Baron_Saturday
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 08:50 AM
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Does anyone know of any dealers who actually do lower the grade for a cut-out? Most of the time if the cover looks new except for a bb hole they'll just mention the bb hole (if they're honest) and call it NM or M-.

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ValdezOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 08:56 AM
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As a seller I lower the grade for a cutout but only In regards to M or NM records. If it is VG+ or under, then it stays VG+ or under cutout or not.... I cannot in good consience sell a Mint or NM w/ a cutout as MINT or NM ... I drop the grade down by 1 grade to NM or VG+. If you bought a MINT record from me and I sent you a cutout you'd be upset with me! When I sell you a VG+ with a cutout you will most likely be OK with that.

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whirlingdiscOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 11:07 AM
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Baron_Saturday wrote:
Does anyone know of any dealers who actually do lower the grade for a cut-out? Most of the time if the cover looks new except for a bb hole they'll just mention the bb hole (if they're honest) and call it NM or M-.


Yes!! That's exactly the point! The accurate description allows the discerning buyer to understand what it is they are buying or bidding on!
If I advertise the vinyl as NM and the cover as the same except for a BB hole punch-out, there should be no doubt about the condition of the package. To fail to mention the cut-out would, of course, be seller dishonesty...no one was advocating that!

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nealumphredOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 01:13 PM
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This is another one of them there topics that I just don't understand the need for conversation. An album jacket with any form of cut-out demarcation on it cannot be Mint. Mint means perfect. Period. A jacket with a rivet, a bb hole, a clipped corner, blah blah blah ain't Mint. Period. We seem to agree on that. What matters is the advertising of an album with a flaw. . .

If two sellers were advertising the same record, which description/seller would attract you: "Jacket is Mint except for bb hole in upper left corner / Record is Mint." or "VG+/M." Or howzabout "Jacket is Mint except for very light ring-wear on front cover / Record is Mint" versus "VG+/M."

In both cases, the first description is both more accurate and more honest than lowering the grade of the jacket. In the first case, you know what you're getting. In the second, you don't. (If the jacket is an overall VG+, then that is a different story. . .)

What the buyer wishes to pay for a damaged copy versus what he/she would pay for a perfect one is entirely up to him/her.

Hope this helps!

NEAL

PS: Annaloog, why would you want to remove the rivet, which is a part of the package, historically, and leave a hole instead?
 
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whirlingdiscOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 01:50 PM
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Ahhhh, we're on the same page! Excellent!

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annaloogOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2005 - 03:15 PM
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nealumphred wrote:
PS: Annaloog, why would you want to remove the rivet, which is a part of the package, historically, and leave a hole instead?

Why not? I have no intent to sell, and I find the grommet more unsightly than the resulting (tiny) hole. I can't do anything about the cutout mark, but I can get rid of the grommet.
 
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