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gregscottOffline
Post subject: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 20, 2007 - 04:13 PM
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i purchased the 2007 goldmine guide for 45s recently. how come it seems that except for a little northern that may be listed or for some records that have just jumped in value for whatever reason; everytime i check what people here are selling records for or completd auctions on ebay,the records never seem to get close to the price in the guide,considering for condition or even in the cases of the nm copies. furthermore,i see so many not get a bid at all or maybe one for a $1 even in nm when the record might be listed for $20 in the guide. why is this?
 
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troggyOffline
Post subject: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 20, 2007 - 08:15 PM
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Because the guide is totally unrealistic in many cases.

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Post subject: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 20, 2007 - 09:20 PM
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Prices listed in the guides are considered to be those you might expect to pay an established reseller, not someone who hit a yard sale or thrift shop and listed their finds on ebay. They are intended as a guide, not as gospel.
 
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gregscottOffline
Post subject: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 21, 2007 - 05:41 PM
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ok troggy,but why are they so unrealistic if they`re supposed to take into account actual sales from all sorts of dealers/sellers. annalooq,i understand that some people find decent records for small prices and sometimes these people will sell them on ebay,for example. but i woudln`t think that too many people are finding older nm or even vg+ singles for any price at yard sales/thrift shops,maybe some at flea markets for decent prices,perhaps. and of course if they did get good singles on the cheap they`d be a little more open to getting less for them than someone who paid a hefty price to resell. but even in cases where someone gets a real good deal,when they go to resell they still want to get collectable prices for top condition items. . but how does the fact that they get the items cheap(the buyers don`t know that necesssarily),explain the extrememly low bids/no bids,even for nm with picture slleve even in some cases. people who have the guides and who go by by them would be passing up good deals,no? established reseller; people who sell regularly on ebay or flea markets or onli60sne for years would be considered established resellers ,i would think. what about record shows? record stores? are these types of entities getting close to nm guide prices for nm material in your experience? is anybody getting anything close to guide in most cases for non-rare,pop-rock from the 50`s-60s,in say,nm? according to the editor of the guide,nm hits from the 50`s-60s are sought after now because collectors are relaising they`re getting hard to find in nice shape. well,again; i`ve done many searches on ebay for completed auctions on established artists,hits or no,from the 50s-60s in vg+,nm,even with the pic sleeve,etc. and i don`t see any items getting bids,when they are getting bids at all,anywhere even close to guide! and it`s not just ebay this is happening on i wouldn1t think. people who sell 45s here on the board,are not asking for anywhere near guide even for rarer items. so am i correct in saying that for the very most part,in terms of selling; ebay is only good for rare records/northern in whatever genre,but not for much of anything else? and that it is a buyers market for all the other stuff? i understand that guides are just that and far from being gospel but they should be somewhat in the ballpark not 75% or more higher than prices i see realised online on ebay,etc.
 
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Post subject: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 21, 2007 - 09:36 PM
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Here's my perspective as a buyer and collector.

I go to hundreds of yard sales and visit countless thrift shops, antique stores, and pawn shops in the course of a year. I buy entire collections or individual records paying from $0.02 to $2.00 each. By luck I find the occasional "rare" or "high book value" record. I really don't care about "value" since I'm not selling although I'm getting overrun with duplicates so I'm going to have to start selling just to get rid of stuff.

Here's how the book values are crazy, IMO. Goldmine lists Michael Jackson - Thriller and Fleetwood Mac - Rumours as $8.00 to $10.00 records in NM condition. However, both records sold in the multimillion quantities and can easily be found still in shrink wrap NM condition very easily. I'd be stupid to pay more than $1.00 for either LP, assuming I'm willing to go crate digging and I don't have a desperate urge to own either LP RIGHT NOW.

I think book value is more applicable to a collector who is a completist, seeking rare titles and willing to pay top dollar to reputable dealers so that he can own the record RIGHT NOW.

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Post subject: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 22, 2007 - 07:30 AM
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My conviction--may be wrong--is that eBay forever altered record prices / values.

Before that, when considering 45s or Lps, it seemed like there was indeed a "finite" number of them...you may see them in shows, or (with ever-less frequency) as thrifts, used bookstores, garage or estate sales, etc...

Now? heck, I can do a search for a record that's always been on my want list, and have a return of several choices, in several grades, for several starting bids. Not bad.

Yeah, we've sorta come to the conclusion around here that price guides, though, make EXCELLENT discographical guides...invaluable tools+++

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Post subject: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 22, 2007 - 09:51 AM
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Quote:
why are they so unrealistic if they`re supposed to take into account actual sales from all sorts of dealers/sellers


Who says they're supposed to do this? They really aren't "supposed" to do anything. They report on information they've found. To understand that information, you have to read the section in the front of the guide that explains how they gathered that information. If they did it by surveying specialty brick-and-mortar resellers, then the prices are going to reflect what those stores charge (and get). If they're gathering stats on Ebay sales, then the prices will reflect what you would pay on Ebay. If they're doing both, then their prices will be an average, which won't precisely reflect either of those markets (let alone any other market).

The bottom line is, there isn't just one price for any given record in any given condition. There are multiple markets--yard sales, thrift shops, online auctions, specialty resellers, etc.--each with its own set of prices. No price guide could possibly reflect that. So don't expect miracles.
 
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troggyOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 22, 2007 - 10:13 AM
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gregscott wrote:
ok troggy,but why are they so unrealistic if they`re supposed to take into account actual sales from all sorts of dealers/sellers.


I have my doubts that they do this at all, in many cases.

I agree with Davey that eBay has greatly changed record values. I believe that the lower end, more common stuff is worth less and the top end stuff is worth more because of eBay.

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troggyOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 22, 2007 - 10:17 AM
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DaveyTheWaxMan wrote:
Yeah, we've sorta come to the conclusion around here that price guides, though, make EXCELLENT discographical guides...invaluable tools+++


Neely's guides aren't nearly complete enough to make excellent anythings. It's a good discographical guide for the artists he lists, I suppose but there are so many artists that aren't in there that I rarely, if ever, refer to it at all.

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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: actual 45 sales vs. goldmine guide  PostPosted: Oct 30, 2007 - 02:07 PM






i just found some information that says all my records are worth twice goldmine value. i wrote it on a piece of paper.

then reality sets back in and i am left with the fact that just because someone publishes or 'creates' information, it is
not automagically go$pel in relation to real market value.

my point is... if reality is a barometer, price guides are incorrect.
 
   
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