The Record Collectors Guild Forum Index

Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Printable version Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Author Message
RobinOffline
Post subject: Record Pressing  PostPosted: Jul 02, 2004 - 07:51 AM
Level 1
Level 1


Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 2

Status: Offline
Sorry if this sounds a bit lame to some of you, but I'm new to this game.

Does anyone know if there is any way I can tell whether my records are 1st 2nd of 3rd pressing etc.. from the vinyl?

Is there a standard way in which this is done or do different labels/artists use different methods?

To what extent can this affect the value of the record? I'm assuming that this will depend entirely on what the record is/condition/rarity etc etc.

All responses appreciated.

Cheers
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
ks45
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 02, 2004 - 08:20 AM
R.C.Guild-SMR
R.C.Guild-SMR


Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Posts: 2928

Mikeys the boy to answer this....but surely,the only records re-pressed were those that sold well...and each record company must have had its own accepted levels of success...the big companies didnt have the same economical restraints as some little one-man company in Memphis.
Many companies had a numerical or alphabetical code system for factory purposes which could identify which stamper was used ...I think one of Mikeys earlier post mentioned that a pressing plant could have many presses in action at once producing the same disc,therefore many stampers on the go at the same time.So the coding system was no sure way of DATING one stamper as later than another.
Just read what I've written,and I'm becoming confused!!!!!And havent even started on revised label designs yet!!!!
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
annaloogOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 02, 2004 - 09:56 AM
R.C.Guild-M-SMR
R.C.Guild-M-SMR


Joined: Jun 03, 2003
Posts: 12491
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)
Status: Offline
Robin - This is a simple question to ask, but there is no clear-cut answer, and the issue can get quite complicated. The standard method for distinguishing pressings, adopted by price guide compilers, is to assume that only one pressing was made for a particular label design. A complicating factor here is that many record companies contracted pressing out to different plants -- for instance, in the USA records sold across the country were pressed in at least 2 or 3 different plants (East, Midwest and West regions) to lower shipping costs. However, different plants have been known to use completely different labels for the same release at the same time.

As for reading the the vinyl (or shellac) itself, some pressing plants, like US Columbia, used to indicate matrix, mother and stamper IDs, but unless you have an understanding of how these plants followed this practice (and each did it somewhat differently) it can be hard to understand. Some plants included the mastering date, either literally or by code. In the early '50s, records pressed at Capitol's Scranton plant had the date machine-stamped in the groove trailoff (like '7-52'). Capitol custom and RCA pressings used a date code, a letter to indicate the year. To my knowledge pressing plants did not stamp "1st pressing" "2nd pressing" etc. (or something along those lines) into the groove trailoff, as they were in the business of pressing records, not making it easier for collectors. What information they did provide was for their own audit/control purposes.
 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Reply with quote Back to top
jackcaptureOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 02, 2004 - 01:23 PM
R.C.Guild-M-SMR
R.C.Guild-M-SMR


Joined: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 4993
Location: North Carolina, USA
Status: Offline
For the purpose of valuing records, using label variations as they changed over the years is the generally accepted practice. This info can be found in the price guides, when there is a price difference. Some guides list more differences than others, but there are distinct value differences for many 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. pressings.
There is a listing of price guides on our homepage.

_________________
"Groove value is always greater than monetary value." --The Rooster
Goldmine puts it at $125 - $500, Osborne puts it at $100 - $300. Kaos puts it on a turntable...cuz that's where the REAL value is! --Kaos
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Pgh GuyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 02, 2004 - 03:36 PM
R.C.Guild-SM
R.C.Guild-SM


Joined: Nov 02, 2002
Posts: 1491
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Status: Offline
Hey everyone,

I agree with annaloog and have some question in ref: to jackcaptures response.....To many times there is differences in the pressing and the record companies don't differenciate from one pressing to the other and from one artist to the other about whether this is a first pressing or not a 1st pressing....Sometimes the labeling and the record # have somethng to do with the 1st release and other times this does not hold true. The dead wax or run-off indication only relates to the record the individual is pressing @ the time he/she is cutting the record....There is basicly no effective way to tell the pressing of the record you have without knowing the codes of the record companies at the time of recording & cutting.....We all think we have what could be an original and we really don't know what we have in the record that has been pressed and cut by the record companies...Just a laymens interpratation of what I have been able to find out thru my record collection....I could be wrong, but there are two many questions on record pressings that no one can explain to suit my taste for that record....

Just my $.02 worth....

Adios....Bye....Aye

Pgh Guy
John G
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
RobinOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 02, 2004 - 05:10 PM
Level 1
Level 1


Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 2

Status: Offline
Wow!

So it's more complicated than I thought and it wasn't just me being a prat, not knowing how it was done. As it were.

Thats been a big help guys, thanks. Although It's not directly helped me ascertain the pressing of the vinyl in my collection, I am now more aware of the circumstances surrounding it. You've set mind to rest a little. Cheers, it's appreciated.
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
jackcaptureOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 03, 2004 - 11:25 AM
R.C.Guild-M-SMR
R.C.Guild-M-SMR


Joined: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 4993
Location: North Carolina, USA
Status: Offline
All I'm saying, John, is that for those of us who, like me, don't want to delve into the tedium of matrix numbers, the label differences that are obvious are good enough in determining rarity. I'm not selling mine so I don't care about the value, but given the choice between a first or subsequent pressing that I can easily identify, I'll take the first. Or if I know a subsequent one has something different or peculiar, I'll take it. Cool

_________________
"Groove value is always greater than monetary value." --The Rooster
Goldmine puts it at $125 - $500, Osborne puts it at $100 - $300. Kaos puts it on a turntable...cuz that's where the REAL value is! --Kaos
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Pgh GuyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 03, 2004 - 03:45 PM
R.C.Guild-SM
R.C.Guild-SM


Joined: Nov 02, 2002
Posts: 1491
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Status: Offline
Hey Jackcapture,

I agree with you on the accepted premice that the 1st pressing is important to a record....I don't want to stur up a hornets nest here, but there are way to many unresolved questions that I have about pressings that not many people can explain to satisfy my inquirys about pressing that is really accepted as the rule when it comes to value of a record.....

Ok for now....Adios...Bye...Aye

Pgh Guy
John G
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
CrackleOffline
Post subject: FAQ: How to tell an original (1st) pressing from reissues  PostPosted: Jan 02, 2005 - 10:50 PM
Level 4
Level 4


Joined: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 90

Status: Offline
Could anyone tell me a good place to look to find the matrix numbers in the runoff that identify first and later record pressings, etc? Thanks.




=========================
Moderator's note (Jun 13, 2008): Several discussion threads on this topic have been combined into one, and the whole changed to a "sticky". Hopefully, this will serve to answer one of the more frequently asked questions on these forums, and avoid having to hunt them all down.
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
annaloogOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 03, 2005 - 12:05 AM
R.C.Guild-M-SMR
R.C.Guild-M-SMR


Joined: Jun 03, 2003
Posts: 12491
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)
Status: Offline
Crackle - The matrix numbers (and often the stamper numbers) are machine-stamped or hand-written the the groove trailoff, the area between the audio groove and the label. Different plants used different numbering systems and codes, and some plants didn't bother to identify the stampers -- or themselves for that matter. To my knowledge these numbers do not indicate pressing order (1st, 2nd, etc). As the term is used in price guides, pressings are distinguished by differences in label design.
 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Reply with quote Back to top
Display posts from previous:     
Jump to:  
All times are GMT
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Printable version Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 © 2003-2007 The PNphpBB Group
Credits