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GlenvinyljunkieOffline
Post subject: Copying for money  PostPosted: Nov 09, 2010 - 05:11 AM
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Someone suggested to me recently that I should transfer records to cd for other people in order to make some extra money. That sounds like fun, but I don't want to get busted by the law for copright infringement. can anyone tell me about the legalities of this? Thanks.
 
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scotapellOffline
Post subject: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Nov 09, 2010 - 05:21 AM
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I'm not sure how much copyright laws differ in Canada (I suspect not much), but in the US this is perfectly legal as long as both the digital copy and original are returned to the owner.

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Post subject: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Nov 09, 2010 - 01:16 PM
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I own and operate an audio & video transfer service.

Fair use provision of copyright law allows an individual to make a copy of an audio recording they legally own in a different format for personal use.

Customers provide records or tapes that they own and I will transfer them to CD-R.

LEGAL

Making one copy of a commercial recording for the customer.
Making multiple copies of a home-recording, e.g. cassette tape interview with grandpa.

ILLEGAL

Making multiple copies of a commercial recording (that a customer wants to share with or sell to friends).
Making a copy of a commercial record or tape from my collection and selling it to a customer.

Video is a different story. I tell customers that if it's a commercial release (Disney video, major Hollywood film) and has BIG RED FBI letters and a dire warning about copying, I will not touch it. All of the video transfers I do are of customer's home videos.

I would suggest if you want to get into this, register your business with the province of Alberta and get set up to collect sales tax, if applicable. Then get some business cards printed and advertise in local newspapers. Good luck and have fun!

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scatterplotOffline
Post subject: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2010 - 01:41 AM
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Well Cowboy, this sounds like a paying hobby, fun. I might give it a shot since I'm all set with PC, turntable, software, etc. Vids? Never thought about that one. I have a DVD recorder that will record anything run into it's line ins. Anyway, small steps Jim, small steps.
Cowboy, do people like, drop off their whole collection or a stack of their fav. LP's with a spindle of blank CD-R's and say "OK, make em into CDR's for 2 bucks each? Hmm, if so, I might say "sure, but how about letting me keep that copy of "Let It Bleed" for 2 or 3 album's worth of copying?" I'm sure that's legal. I provide a service for a good and he gets his digital copy prior to me getting the LP for payment hehee. I live in Texas. Jim

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GraemeOffline
Post subject: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2010 - 04:52 PM
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Quote:

I might say "sure, but how about letting me keep that copy of "Let It Bleed" for 2 or 3 album's worth of copying?" I'm sure that's legal.


No - you're totally wrong, it's highly illegal, in any country!

Don't think this is going to be a 'paying hobby', unless you are prepared to work for very little pay, in terms of $/hr. Any fool with a turntable and a PC can make copies of a record, but people who own records generally have the equipment to do this for themselves. What the paying customers want is a facility that can offer digital clean up of (often quite poor) recordings. This is not for the faint-hearted or inexpereinced and takes a lot of time for not a lot of reward.

Beleve me, I've been doing just this for years. All I have to show for it is a lot of expensive hardware and software and a very small bank balance.

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CactusCowboyOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2010 - 06:42 PM
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scatterplot wrote:
Well Cowboy, this sounds like a paying hobby, fun. I might give it a shot since I'm all set with PC, turntable, software, etc. Vids? Never thought about that one. I have a DVD recorder that will record anything run into it's line ins. Anyway, small steps Jim, small steps.
Cowboy, do people like, drop off their whole collection or a stack of their fav. LP's with a spindle of blank CD-R's and say "OK, make em into CDR's for 2 bucks each? Hmm, if so, I might say "sure, but how about letting me keep that copy of "Let It Bleed" for 2 or 3 album's worth of copying?" I'm sure that's legal. I provide a service for a good and he gets his digital copy prior to me getting the LP for payment hehee. I live in Texas. Jim


Customers call in response to my ads. I field the call, answer questions and arrange for them to bring me (or mail) records, tapes, & videotape. I buy and use my own CD-R and DVD-R blanks.

Customers would certainly love for me to transfer LPs for two bucks a pop, but that'll never happen. I sometimes have customers offer me a "deal", which goes like this:

Customer: "You transfer my Readers Digest box set and you can KEEP THE RECORDS in exchange for doing the transfers!"

So, in other words, I'm expected to do four hours of work at no charge, in return for a box set that I don't want and that most thrift shops can't sell for fifty cents. Rolling Eyes

The only way to make this a money-making business is to work efficiently and build volume. If I'm transferring two videotapes while I'm also doing two audio transfers, I'm working efficiently and generating a decent amount of billable work per hour.

Factor in cost of overhead, advertising, equipment, supplies, health insurance, etc... and it's not an easy business to operate profitably. Like Graeme, I'm hardly getting rich doing this.

The advantage to this sort of business is that I'm my own boss, I set my own hours, I work out of the house, and I can take vacation whenever I want. It's a marked contrast to the grinding 55+ hours per week I previously spent in Retail Sales.

I would only advise getting into it if you're self-motivated, skilled with sales & marketing, and have sufficient savings to get through the lean beginnings of a start-up business.
 
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scatterplotOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2010 - 08:54 PM
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@ Greame: I was referring to me(hobby-wise). I'm a bit of a jokester and have a tendency to talk to people as though they had known me(and my sense of humor) for years. I already have Let It Bleed anyhow(see, I'm joking). I was just thinking I use this nice software I bought for de-clicking, and I come home every morning(I work graveyard shift) and basically flake out in front of my PC, which is my preferred entertainment. What I like to do when a new package, vinyl of course, comes is clean the *beep* out of the record with a discwasher. Then I use audio editing software to record it and create the split points. My turntable has a magnetic cartridge but also a built in preamp so I run it straight into my soundcard line-in. Then I tweek my de-click software the way I want it for the finished WAV files. My PC line outs go into a 16 ch. mixer to a Pioneer reciever and large speakers. I realize digitalizing my music is fun, but listening to something that bores me for 3-4 hours a morning would be tedious. Still, I'm just thinking out loud, trying to make conversation about something I enjoy. @ Cowboy: Nah, I got a job with the State of Texas and have all I need....I guess. I was thinking the only logical approach would be to charge by the hour. Has to be if I have to listen to Barbra Streisand all morning! But would be great if it was Genesis. I would not offer color printed CD labels of the LP cover as the art has a copyright too. No Lightscribe label either. Just black and white text printed on a paper label. Does this sound feasable to do for say, $8 an hour? Ya'll be cool, Jim
 
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scatterplotOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2010 - 09:37 PM
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PS: I can also do cassettes. My software has settings for them too. I was also thinking last night.....hmmm, I wonder if Cowboy has 2 or more records going at once? How does he listen for skips(which would seen to eliminate that record from the list now, but I have had about a 50% success rate using a light nylon guitar pick and magnifying glass to fix a skip) with both going at once? Man that would drive me nuts. So, more about you guys.....Greame and Cowboy, what is your preferred de-noising software? I use Acoustica Spin It Again. Favorite methods of cleaning? I use dear old Discwasher.....the RCA re-issue of course(miss the original). Funny, I found a huge still sealed original D4 fluid bottle I bought around 1990, like 750ml size. Wonder if it's still good. Fav. turntables? I've had many but now I've got an Audio Technica at-pl50, can plug into magnetic phono in's but has a preamp as well for line level in's. I -really- like your forum guys. There is so much here! Not just equipment and methods, but looking at other's posts on obscure labels and artists. Great site! Jim
 
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CactusCowboyOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 12:03 AM
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scatterplot wrote:
@ Cowboy: Nah, I got a job with the State of Texas and have all I need....I guess. I was thinking the only logical approach would be to charge by the hour. Has to be if I have to listen to Barbra Streisand all morning! But would be great if it was Genesis. I would not offer color printed CD labels of the LP cover as the art has a copyright too. No Lightscribe label either. Just black and white text printed on a paper label. Does this sound feasable to do for say, $8 an hour? Ya'll be cool, Jim


I don't have to sit and listen to the stuff I transfer. For example, as I was transferring a customer's Ed Ames and Ferrante & Teicher LPs yesterday, I was listening to Devo and Tygers Of Pan Tang. Smile

I do offer custom artwork with transfers, but don't usually push it as it's labor intensive. If the customer desires, I'll copy the album artwork with a digital camera, and shrink it to fit a jewel case. The only time I really try selling this option is with custom type stuff that will generate 10-20 copies. For example, a customer brings a home-made cassette tape of Grandpa playing his guitar and singing/yodeling. Fifteen copies are ordered. I'll suggest they bring snapshots of Grandpa and I'll use those photos to create a slick package. The repetition of banging out 15 identical prints/jewel boxes makes it more efficient and profitable.

My usual job entails producing a CD-R and putting it into a plastic-lined paper sleeve. Simple, quick, & cheap and the customer gets what's important, the music on disc.

$8 an hour?!..... all due respect, but yer crazy man! Would you work for the State of Texas for $8? Nah, I didn't think so. Don't give away your time and talent for peanuts. Better to charge by the piece. $15 per LP/cassette/8-track/videotape is competitive and about what the market will bear. Customers like to know up front what cost will be and a per piece rate usually covers that. Obviously, if a customer brings me VHS tapes recorded at SLP running for 5-6-7 hours, it's a different story.

If you really want to try this to generate some extra part-time income, I'd suggest printing up some business cards, register with the State of Texas to collect Sales Tax, and begin by running a small ad in the local paper. Keep your expenses down and work efficiently.
 
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CactusCowboyOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 12:36 AM
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scatterplot wrote:
PS: I can also do cassettes. My software has settings for them too. I was also thinking last night.....hmmm, I wonder if Cowboy has 2 or more records going at once? How does he listen for skips(which would seen to eliminate that record from the list now, but I have had about a 50% success rate using a light nylon guitar pick and magnifying glass to fix a skip) with both going at once? Man that would drive me nuts. So, more about you guys.....Greame and Cowboy, what is your preferred de-noising software? I use Acoustica Spin It Again. Favorite methods of cleaning? I use dear old Discwasher.....the RCA re-issue of course(miss the original). Funny, I found a huge still sealed original D4 fluid bottle I bought around 1990, like 750ml size. Wonder if it's still good. Fav. turntables? I've had many but now I've got an Audio Technica at-pl50, can plug into magnetic phono in's but has a preamp as well for line level in's. I -really- like your forum guys. There is so much here! Not just equipment and methods, but looking at other's posts on obscure labels and artists. Great site! Jim


Jim,

You might spend some time in the "How do I clean and maintain my collection?" forum for tips on cleaning. I use a homemade RCM (record cleaning machine) to clean vinyl. There's a "sticky" on DIY RCMs at the top of that forum page. Check it out.

I encounter skips on maybe one out of 500 records I transfer. I can usually tell (by inspecting the grooves while cleaning) if I've got a potential 'troublemaker.' My aggressive and thorough cleaning regimen removes offending dirt and gunk that would cause most skips. When customers bring really trashed LPs, I'll use a Stanton 500 with conical stylus tracking at 5 grams for playback. That usually does the trick. My biggest challenges have been warped discs, heavily abused 78s, home-made cardboard records, and "acetates."

I use Goldwave audio editing software. The pop/click filter does a good job. I prefer to use it lightly and sparingly, if at all.

I use quartz-locked direct drive Technics, JVC, and Pioneer turntables for transfers. They provide excellent speed accuracy with no audible wow & flutter or rumble. I use MM and MI cartridges, with styli ranging from conical to fine-line and Fritz Geiger profile. I use a Stanton 500 for 78s, with styli ranging from 2.0 to 4.0 mil, going into a Hagerman Bugle Pro variable EQ phono preamp.

I also have a dedicated circuit for the equipment with a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) large battery back-up. Nothing more frustrating than having a 5 minute power outage wipe out two or three jobs you've got going. The UPS cost nearly $300 but it paid for itself within 6 months.
 
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