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scatterplotOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 12:57 AM
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It's all in good fun. I was also thinking...have the customer option to leave with all songs/albums on a flashdrive.....or DVD-R. Then they just burn their files at will on their own CD-R or copy to HD. I keep all my mp3's/music on an external HD and click to listen(all my store bought CD's are backed on HD). I burn CD's for use in my car tho. Not usually vinyl rips tho. I think I'm beginning to empathize with your frustrations tho. The best thing about all this is the music doncha think? I think we all gravitated to this same site for passion of music, yes? My GF likes pop/disco, arghhh. But I've compiled her some fav. song CD's from her collection. I'm 50 and am still stuck in my old prog-rock ways! If you asked me to digatalize all your Pink Floyd LP's as a favor, I'd prob. do it for free! What was it Eric Burden said? "You wanna find the truth in life, don't pass music by". Jim

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GraemeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 12:03 PM
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Much of what I am about to write will seem a bit of a put-down to you, but I really am only trying to open your eyes (and ears) to the reality of what you are proposing.

Although I appreciate you thinking of this hobby-business as a bit of fun and a joke, I can assure you that any paying customers will be looking for something far more professional than a bit of automated de-clicking, done with a $35 software they can buy and use for themselves. No matter how you might view it, your customers will be looking for professional results and SIA simply isn't up to the mark. The demo tracks on their website (which, one would presume, represents the best their software can achieve) clearly show its limitations.

Put simply and no matter what format the source material is in, pre-sets are simply not enough. To do this sort of work to the level expected by the customers, you need extremely flexible software and - more importantly - the knowledge of how to use it to its optimum capability. You will also need some good quality gear at the input as well - the AT-PL50 is a fair run-about for the money, but it's no Rolls-Royce or Cadillac.

scatterplot wrote:
Greame and Cowboy, what is your preferred de-noising software?


I probably have more of this stuff than anyone else here, I've been collecting it for years. There is no single 'best' (other than, perhaps, a CEDAR system, but you'd have to sell the farm for that). Some softwares are better at providing a solution to a particular problem than others. By the same token, a similar problem, from a different source, might best be dealt with by a different software.

If there is one 'all-round' software that I would recommend, it would be Adobe Audition. This has nearly all the tools you need. This currently retails for around the $350 mark, but you might be lucky enough to pick up its predecessor, Cool Edit Pro, for much less. Don't go for any version lower than 2.1a and you'll have a good tool to work with.

For myself, I use mainly Audition as a starting point, but a fair sprinkling of other tools - Waves X-Crackle and Algorithmix Sound Laundry spring to mind, but there are many more.

scatterplot wrote:
Favorite methods of cleaning?


I use a Keith Monks RCM - not cheap, but one of the best machines around, in conjunction with a cleaning chemistry that I developed for myself over a number of years. Commercially, you would not go wrong by using the disc cleaning products marketed by http://www.discdoc.com/ .

As for other gear, I have too much to list, but records are usually played on an Accura DD turntable, via a Quad 34 pre-amp. I have a number of cartridges. I mainly use a Shure MX97e for LP's, the same for early 45's (but using a different stylus). 78's pose a whole set of problems of their own and I have a large range of stylii and cartridges to play around with for optimum results before any digitisation takes place.

For two channel work, I have a LynxOne sound card (another major expense). When I do multi-channel tape work I use a Yamaha 01X (more bl**dy money, but if you're going to do it, then you have to do it properly). You need good monitoring - I run a Quad 33 into a pair of Rogers LS2's and Stax earspeakers for really critical click spotting, etc.

Then, of course, there are the tape machines ..... but that's another story.

How does all this sound? Here's a before and after clip. Particularly tricky, as the percussion will fool a lot of software into trying a totally uneccessary (and sound destroying) click reduction. Leaving aside the artifacts introduced by MP3 compression, I think the investent has paid off. I leave you to judge for yourself;

http://www.personal-cd.com/beforeclip.mp3
http://www.personal-cd.com/afterclip.mp3

Your $8 an hour is way too low. Quite honestly, if anyone offered me such a service at your price, then I would seriously question whether the guy knew what he was doing? I consider we offer a relatively cheap service, but an average LP would cost someone around 60 (around $80) and there's little profit in it for me. If I'm doing work for a company doing a re-release or something like that, then they're looking at $50 an hour (and lots of them).

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CactusCowboyOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 12:07 PM
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Yes, it is fun, although for me it's a business and it gets to be routine. I remember one day I was doing two home-video transfers at the same time, for Mrs. "X" and Mrs. "Y." On one monitor is Mrs. X's cute newborn in a crib. On the other monitor is Mrs. Y's cute newborn in a crib. Laughing I think I've transferred well over three dozen Mantovani LPs at this point, and don't even ask about Readers Digest box sets! Rolling Eyes On occasion, a customer will have some cool stuff, like the fellow who brought me a dozen Hawkwind and Tangerine Dream LPs for transfer.

As for customer option to have songs on flashdrive, I've never had that type of request. The vast majority of my customers are 40-80 years old and not particularly computer-savvy. Their primary concern is getting home videos, records, cassettes, and 8-tracks onto a modern and convenient format. I've had a few ask about MP3 format and getting music onto Itunes. For those folks, I'll explain that the CD-R with WAV files I provide is their "best quality master" and that they can simply copy those files into Itunes, converting to their file format of choice.

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scatterplotOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 03:15 PM
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@Greame: Impressive. Good sound restoration there. Nice equipment list you have. SIA, while not too costly I do think is great tho. The presets are all fully tweekable. I mainly use the declick, noise reduction(sparingly) and EQ. I just play...like today I knocked out old LPM-2697 Elvis-It Happened at the World Fair and got good results. I listen to the dirty wav file and tweek SIA till I get the best result. Wish I could get my hands on an Aphex aural exciter a freind from years past had....I could hit the dirty file with more noise reduction then run it thru the aphex. Oh well, I got what I need for now.
@Cowboy: Reader's digest box sets. Get it away! Tangerine Dream..fun stuff. I could go for Force Majeur right now. I think you planted a suggestion! Ya'll have a great weekend! Jim
 
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GraemeOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 04:55 PM
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Quote:

Wish I could get my hands on an Aphex aural exciter a freind from years past had....I could hit the dirty file with more noise reduction then run it thru the aphex.


Which would not be a good move. One of the aims for restoration work should be to make as few changes to the dynamics, EQ, etc. of the original recording - it is not supposed to a form of re-mastering.

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GraemeOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 04:57 PM
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Quote:

On one monitor is Mrs. X's cute newborn in a crib. On the other monitor is Mrs. Y's cute newborn in a crib.


Dodgy stuff - hope you didn't mix up the labels (although I personally think all newborn babies look the same)

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CactusCowboyOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 06:56 PM
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Graeme wrote:
Quote:

On one monitor is Mrs. X's cute newborn in a crib. On the other monitor is Mrs. Y's cute newborn in a crib.


Dodgy stuff - hope you didn't mix up the labels (although I personally think all newborn babies look the same)


Laughing Right! Although I imagine 'switched by the transfer service' isn't nearly as bad as 'switched at birth.' Wink
 
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scatterplotOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2010 - 10:01 PM
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Quote:
it is not supposed to a form of re-mastering


Very true. I wonder.I bet a good number of people when they pull a new windows pc out of the box and hook it up, then use windows media player for the first time(and later, and later...) don't realize the "SRS Wow" effects are on. To about 50% default setting I think. So they are actually listening to an altered version of everything. I kinda like it. It sounds to me like it adds a little large room reverb and a "stereo generation wide" effect I use to have on some multi FX rack units years ago. I usually turn SRS wow down to about 20% now. I can see your dedication to accuracy and understand it. Me? I'm not gonna digatalize anyone elses LP's. I don't even know anybody with LP's anymore. But I'm thinking if you said your clients are usually 40 to 80, we're talking HF hearing loss to varying degrees....but then what the heck. Why pump more money into equipment? They have EQ on their PC's and car CD players. Let 'em tweek it their own way hehee.....However, I do think there are some plug-in "acoustic exiter" type software products out there. I must research that. Me? For my own use, I like to alter sound. Quick story then I'll shut up. Around 1980, before I dabbled into music beyond just a "hi fi" and records, I had a buddy with a fairly decent amateur recording studio. I went to his place with my copy of Mike Oldfield "Incantations". We started to listen to it and I told him I thought it was Oldfield's best yet, but sounded dull and lifeless sonically, needed a boost. Well, he had an equalizer, a kind of rarity for me in 1980, and some type of analog delay unit of that era that would do many cool things. He tweeked some knobs for about 5 minutes, then que'ed up side 1 again. I was so blown away I ran and got a blank cassette. I was in heaven for the next 65 minutes and treasured that cassette for a long time. 'Course by 1999 I had the CD, which sounded just as good, even better. Yall be cool. Jim
 
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scatterplotOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Jan 08, 2011 - 01:20 AM
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Following up on the Spin It Again software so much later in this thread.....I've bought records off ebay, thrift stores and one old guy with a room full of really dirty records since first posting. I've dived much deeper into SIA's many customizable features, so many, even reverb(with many to chose from-but I don't use it). It's a package I'd recommend for anyone! If you spend time with it, it will turn a G- record into a VG++..........even deep cut groove pops are diminished quite well. Normal to loud pops and crackles are eliminated to almost CD quality. Old poor recordings I like to tweek the high freeks using the EQ to make it just a little crisper. My 2 pesos worth, Jim

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ericrice0
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Copying for money  PostPosted: Apr 17, 2012 - 05:53 PM
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Graeme wrote:

... One of the aims for restoration work should be to make as few changes to the dynamics, EQ, etc. of the original recording - it is not supposed to a form of re-mastering.


I am not sophisticated when it comes to sound quality or my hobby of transferring my vinyl to CD, so I was curious to listen to your examples, thinking they might be revelatory. I was disappointed at first that all my unsophisticated ears heard on the new recording was the removal of very small clicks and a generally more present sound, instead of instruments I hadn't heard in the older recording. But then it struck me: You did exactly what you say up above: you restored the sound to the way it was originally. I'm sure the George Martin's of the world appreciate your respectful attitude and professionalism. I do.

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