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wwotr
Post subject: BLACK, PICTURE DISCS AND COLORED VINYL QUESTIONS  PostPosted: Sep 13, 2011 - 08:14 PM
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I've been a Vinyl Collector for about 30 years, but am no Audophile by any means.
I had some "General" questions regarding "Sound Quality",
on different types of Vinyl Records.

In the 3 Catagories (in the Sunject above), I always understood that Black Vinyl was the "Best Sounding", followed by Colored Vinyl and Lastly...Picture Discs.

So my 1st question would be...
Is there THAT MUCH, (if any) difference in the Sound Quality, between
Black Vinyl and Colored Vinyl Records?

My NEXT Question would be,
why are Picture Discs, the lowest quality sounding Vinyl?
What makes Picture Discs different from Black/Colored Vinyl?
Is there a different process for each,
and if so, what in that process "Degrades" the sound?

I remember buying a lot of my Piocture Discs back in the Mid - Late 70's, and there were clear "Disclamers" on the Picture Discs, that they were NOIT intended to compete/Sound like thast of a "Regular Vinyl Record".


Thanks in advance....

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Roger

Always looking for "Rare, Limited, Private Pressings",
of Classic Rock from the 60's/70's, On Vinyl/CD/DVD.
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MoserOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 13, 2011 - 08:29 PM
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I've noticed inferior sound quality on picture discs but not so much on colored vinyl.

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wwotr
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 13, 2011 - 08:34 PM
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Moser wrote:
I've noticed inferior sound quality on picture discs but not so much on colored vinyl.


Absolutely...I agree with that.
In fact I'd rate Black and Colored Vinyl on the SAME playing field as far as sound quality.

I'm just wondering why the Picture Discs, can't achieve the SAME standard of Quality.
I'm not upset about it, but more so, would like to know, WHAT is it in the Process/Manufacturing, that degrades that quality? Crying or Very sad

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Roger

Always looking for "Rare, Limited, Private Pressings",
of Classic Rock from the 60's/70's, On Vinyl/CD/DVD.
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I can be reached at:
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CliveOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 14, 2011 - 12:07 AM
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The completely AWESOME book, Extraordinary Records, has answers for both why people say black sounds better and also a general 'what's the deal with picture disks' that includes a great explanation of why UK shaped disks turn brown.

Extraordinary Records is a square 9" book with about 430 pages worth of photos of colored LPs, picture disks, shaped records, you name it. Absolutely gorgeous to behold and read. Got my copy at a Borders bookshop going out of business a few weeks ago. Here's the link to it on Amazon: http://amzn.to/o7MpWU I got it 50% off for about $20, so Amazon's price is actually pretty good, all things considered.

Black Vs. Colored Vinyl:
"Why are most records black? Most people assume it is because black vinyl reproduces sound better. That's not true, or at least not entirely. The reason is that the chemical composition of the black coloring gives it a special viscosity that other colors don't have. Black vinyl is oilier, which means that during the pressing process, the disk detaches itself more easily from the press, and this makes it more unlikely that granules or bubbles will form (they could reduce the sound quality of the finished product) But even if the disk is pressed properly, the sound should be just as good, even if the record is white, yellow, red or any other hue. Sometimes colored vinyl gives a better sound than black. Another reason why black is the most common color is that during the production of black vinyl, a certain percentage of recycled vinyl is used (the recycled vinyl is melted down for blending). To make an orange disk, you have to use only virgin vinyl, so the orange pigment will come through. You can't use recycled vinyl in colored disks. In terms of sound quality, the quality of the pressing is more important than the color of the vinyl."

Picture Disks:
"Picture disks are mostly made of five layers: Two transparent sheets of plastic film are placed in the mould of the press, one of the bottom, the other on the top. A punched-out sheet of paper, printed on one side only, is then placed over each fo the sheets of film. The middle of the sandwich is then filled with a layer of heated vinyl granules. The layers are fused together in the machine under heat and pressure. This method is still in use today in many countries and disks made in this way are recognizable by their black edges. Around the end of the 1970s, UK company Orlake began to produce a version with only three components: one sheet of transparent plastic film, one punched-out sheet of paper printed on both sides, and a layer of vinyl melt. This method was used mainly in the UK and these disks are recognizable by their transparent edges. These picture disks are also thinner and lighter than those made of black vinyl. However, on account of the unbalanced composition of natural (paper) and synthetic (vinyl) components, the disks were prone to warpage and brown discolorations through chemical reactions. It was mainly for this reason that manufacturers went back to the original manufacturing process with five components."
 
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wwotr
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 14, 2011 - 01:27 AM
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Dear Clive........YOU RAWK!!!!!!!!!! Smile Very Happy Shocked Razz
This is EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for!!!
I will buy this book also.
I RARELY read, (except for a good Magazine once in awhile), and THIS will be on my reading list.
Again I thank you kind Sir!

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Roger

Always looking for "Rare, Limited, Private Pressings",
of Classic Rock from the 60's/70's, On Vinyl/CD/DVD.
Feel Free to send me your Lists.
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annaloogOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 14, 2011 - 07:09 AM
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See: http://www.recordcollectorsguild.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=342220#342220

Also: http://www.recordcollectorsguild.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=127065#127065
 
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wwotr
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 14, 2011 - 02:06 PM
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Here's an adendum to my original post.

Now I'll throw in "Splatter Vinyl", with the same question,
as far as Sound Quality (v.s. Black Vinyl), and how is IT made?

Which brings up ANOTHER question.
I USED to have a "Who's Zoo" that was like a 3 Part Vinyl.
The 12" record was mad using 3 Different Color Vinyls.
Each 1/3'rd of the LP was a different color Vinyl.
Now how the heck do they do THAT!? Question

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Roger

Always looking for "Rare, Limited, Private Pressings",
of Classic Rock from the 60's/70's, On Vinyl/CD/DVD.
Feel Free to send me your Lists.
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wwotr1@verizon.net
 
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MoserOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 14, 2011 - 06:43 PM
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I played an Elton John splatter vinyl bootleg recently called "West of the Rockies". It's soundboard recordings and it sounded great with very little if any surface noise.


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wwotr
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 14, 2011 - 06:57 PM
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Moser wrote:
I played an Elton John splatter vinyl bootleg recently called "West of the Rockies". It's soundboard recordings and it sounded great with very little if any surface noise.

I didn't really think there would be, but before "Assuming", I thought I'd ask here 1st.
After all, THIS SITE is where all the Knowledge regarding ANYTHING Vinyl wise is.
Were the "Cool Kids".

BTW, I LOVE that Color Vinyl!

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Roger

Always looking for "Rare, Limited, Private Pressings",
of Classic Rock from the 60's/70's, On Vinyl/CD/DVD.
Feel Free to send me your Lists.
I can be reached at:
wwotr1@verizon.net
 
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MoserOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Sep 14, 2011 - 07:13 PM
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wwotr wrote:
BTW, I LOVE that Color Vinyl!


Yeah, I kinda like it also, I'm considering selling it because while I like Elton John I don't necessarily need a $100 record of his in my collection. Plus the few copies on Popsike that are coloured vinyl are green splatter, red/orange splatter or unknown[not mentioned]. Maybe the blue one is rarer? But I've considered keeping it because it does look really cool, the picture doesn't do it justice.

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