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hany
Post subject: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 22, 2012 - 05:09 PM
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i transfer records and tapes using two ways
through a cd recorder
and direct conection to the computer ..
ironically the results are almost the same ! though i thought by cd recorder it will be better..
in both transfers ways after i finish , i see the volume is low than the usual or standard
and not good as the music i download from the internet that were also a vinyl rip !!
where is the problem that cause this ?

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JGH1Offline
Post subject: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 22, 2012 - 05:37 PM
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hany, you may want to download a free program called Audacity. It seems to me that you are recording the program material at lower levels than normal. In Audacity, there is an amplify function which can raise the levels of your sound files but will not clip off the peaks in the music. If you need help with Audacity, please feel free to PM me. I've been using it for nearly 10 years and I'm more than willing to help you.

Don't download the Beta version. It may have issues that need to be worked out by the software developers. Instead, download the most recent version for your computer's operating system.

audacity.sourceforge.net
 
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hany
Post subject: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 22, 2012 - 06:00 PM
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JGH1 wrote:
hany, you may want to download a free program called Audacity. It seems to me that you are recording the program material at lower levels than normal. In Audacity, there is an amplify function which can raise the levels of your sound files but will not clip off the peaks in the music. If you need help with Audacity, please feel free to PM me. I've been using it for nearly 10 years and I'm more than willing to help you.

Don't download the Beta version. It may have issues that need to be worked out by the software developers. Instead, download the most recent version for your computer's operating system.

audacity.sourceforge.net


i had audacity a long time ago but i delete it a long time ago ,
i am using polderbits to record and adobe audition3 to edit ..
will audacity make a difference than these software i am using ?

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GraemeOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 23, 2012 - 03:51 AM
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Quote:

will audacity make a difference than these software i am using ?


None whatsoever. AA3 is a far superior bit of software anyway. I'm not sure why you are using another application to record, AA3 is a recorder as well as an editor.

Assuming you are recording your material and then normalising it to just below 0dB FS, the differences in perceived volume may well be due to differences in post-processing when the tracks were mastered.

The records you are transferring are, almost by definition, old and would not have been subjected to more modern digital mastering techniques - which generally raise the perceived volume, at the expense of dynamic range, because the record companies have this funny idea about 'louder is better'. For more info on this search for "loudness war". Here's one link to get your started - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

Personally and assuming you are recording at the optimum levels, I would leave well alone and simply turn up the volume control on the playback amplifier.

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hany
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 23, 2012 - 11:01 AM
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Graeme wrote:
Quote:

will audacity make a difference than these software i am using ?


None whatsoever. AA3 is a far superior bit of software anyway. I'm not sure why you are using another application to record, AA3 is a recorder as well as an editor.

Assuming you are recording your material and then normalising it to just below 0dB FS, the differences in perceived volume may well be due to differences in post-processing when the tracks were mastered.

The records you are transferring are, almost by definition, old and would not have been subjected to more modern digital mastering techniques - which generally raise the perceived volume, at the expense of dynamic range, because the record companies have this funny idea about 'louder is better'. For more info on this search for "loudness war". Here's one link to get your started - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

Personally and assuming you are recording at the optimum levels, I would leave well alone and simply turn up the volume control on the playback amplifier.


thank you for the kind reply ...
i just downloaded AA3 recently , and before that i was using a software i bought online and i felt good with it so i continued using it ...
honestly my knowledge with editing what i transferd from vinyl to digital is little , but i can tell you one thing when i saw the video u kindly listed , that i don't normalize what i record , i just keep it as it is , all i do is clean and restore the sound file from clicks-hiss-crackle and noise and at the end , but what bugs me is low volume that i get unlike all the other recordings i hear and download ..
could it be that i need to improve something i use to conect the vinyl to PC , a better soundcard maybe !!!!!!!!!!!!! i am confused !

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GraemeOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 23, 2012 - 06:01 PM
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Quote:

i don't normalize what i record , i just keep it as it is


Well, assuming you are making your transfer at 24 bit depth, you'd be looking to peak around the-16 to-12 dB FS point. This will give you more than enough headroom for any unexpected peaks in the source material and changes caused by subsequent processing. At the end of the process, you should then normalise the file to 0 dB FS (I like to go slightly under -0.2 dB FS to allow for any slight variables in the system) and finally smaple convert to 16 bit for transfer to CD.

Quote:

could it be that i need to improve something i use to conect the vinyl to PC , a better soundcard maybe


A better soundcard (always a ggood idea, particularly if you are using the stock card that came with the computer) is not going to change your fundamental problem of a 'quiet' recording, just improve its quality. Changing your cabling isn't going to make any difference in that area either.

I suggest you try normalising a file first and seeing how that compares with what you are already getting. Let us know what happens and we can go from there.

Bear in mind the 'loudness wars' stuff. You are not going to get the same sort of sound from a decently recorded LP as you get from a modern, brick-walled, recording (and anyone with any sort of pretension to musicality wouldn't want it). However, you should be able to make a transfer that is indistinguishable from the source recording, other than the noises have been reduced/eliminated.

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hany
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 23, 2012 - 06:38 PM
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Graeme wrote:
Quote:

i don't normalize what i record , i just keep it as it is


Well, assuming you are making your transfer at 24 bit depth, you'd be looking to peak around the-16 to-12 dB FS point. This will give you more than enough headroom for any unexpected peaks in the source material and changes caused by subsequent processing. At the end of the process, you should then normalise the file to 0 dB FS (I like to go slightly under -0.2 dB FS to allow for any slight variables in the system) and finally smaple convert to 16 bit for transfer to CD.

Quote:

could it be that i need to improve something i use to conect the vinyl to PC , a better soundcard maybe


A better soundcard (always a ggood idea, particularly if you are using the stock card that came with the computer) is not going to change your fundamental problem of a 'quiet' recording, just improve its quality. Changing your cabling isn't going to make any difference in that area either.

I suggest you try normalising a file first and seeing how that compares with what you are already getting. Let us know what happens and we can go from there.

Bear in mind the 'loudness wars' stuff. You are not going to get the same sort of sound from a decently recorded LP as you get from a modern, brick-walled, recording (and anyone with any sort of pretension to musicality wouldn't want it). However, you should be able to make a transfer that is indistinguishable from the source recording, other than the noises have been reduced/eliminated.



thank you for the constant care to reply and the extra tips that sure will be valuable...
the music i transfer is mainly easy and mood music and any noise or faulty appears in this kind of music sure is noticed ..
yes currently i record to the computer motherboard soundcard and i know the quality of that soundcard is not good ,
but i have Creative Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum eX sound card that my new computer don't dectet for a reason i don't know , i will get a computer expert i know to check it,

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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 23, 2012 - 07:46 PM
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I'm gonna ask a question that might take this conversation in a whole new direction: just how low is your sound? Do you have a preamp anywhere in your chain? The sound signal out of a turntable is a lot lower than anything else, and it needs a boost before it gets to whatever you're recording it to. Some turntables do have their own preamps, and if yours does, make sure it's switched on.

If there's no preamp, another question: when you say you're recording directly to a CD recorder, do you mean directly directly, like the turntable is plugged right in to the inputs of the CD recorder, or is the turntable plugged into the Phono input of a receiver or amp first, and then the receiver outputs are plugged into the receiver? If I'm reading you properly, it isn't, and you need a middleman to pump up the output of the turntable to a level your CD burner or PC software can use. If that amp is already there, carry on with some more questions.
 
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 24, 2012 - 05:31 AM
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Rick-TV! wrote:


when you say you're recording directly to a CD recorder, do you mean directly directly, like the turntable is plugged right in to the inputs of the CD recorder, or is the turntable plugged into the Phono input of a receiver....?


Good question.
 
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hany
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: low volume !  PostPosted: Jan 24, 2012 - 07:52 AM
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Rick-TV! wrote:
I'm gonna ask a question that might take this conversation in a whole new direction: just how low is your sound? Do you have a preamp anywhere in your chain? The sound signal out of a turntable is a lot lower than anything else, and it needs a boost before it gets to whatever you're recording it to. Some turntables do have their own preamps, and if yours does, make sure it's switched on.

If there's no preamp, another question: when you say you're recording directly to a CD recorder, do you mean directly directly, like the turntable is plugged right in to the inputs of the CD recorder, or is the turntable plugged into the Phono input of a receiver or amp first, and then the receiver outputs are plugged into the receiver? If I'm reading you properly, it isn't, and you need a middleman to pump up the output of the turntable to a level your CD burner or PC software can use. If that amp is already there, carry on with some more questions.


about the first question, the turntable conected to the amplfier and rca conection from tape 1 [rec] taken to line in of the computer , nothing else comes from the amplfier , i hear the sound from the computer through a woofer box conected to the line out of the sound card...
about the second question , the turntable is concted to a reciver in the phono then the cd recorder is concted to play and record of tape 1 in the reciver
i transferd vinyl and tapes , better results were from the tapes ..
the sound of vinyl i get after transfer is 25% to 40% lower of the standard sound i hear all the time ...

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