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davekeeOffline
Post subject: Label / Record Data Items reqd for Vinyl/CD Database  PostPosted: May 05, 2012 - 07:30 AM
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Hi, (your site address passed tome by Collectors Weekly)
I am attempting to develop a Database for Vinyl/CD Collections.
I will be probably be developing inn VB.Net talking to SQL and maybe optionally Access.
I am looking for the industry standard breakdown of the data items on a Record Label/CD Label and Data Items onthe actual Vinyl itself (e.g. Matrix Nos, Comments)
So Data Size, Type, Length, Value Lists.
I will be building in as much detail/sorts/extracts/option of online/offline web connection, wanted lists, many databases, archived databases, bought info, sold info, attach as many jpegs as you want, etc, etc.

So I want to try and get it looking correct from the beginning.

Also is their any central database that contains discographys of labels/artists.
Any info would be appreciated.
Cheers............... Dave
 
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annaloogOffline
Post subject: Re: Label / Record Data Items reqd for Vinyl/CD Database  PostPosted: May 08, 2012 - 07:19 AM
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Quote:
... I am looking for the industry standard breakdown of the data items on a Record Label/CD Label and Data Items onthe actual Vinyl itself (e.g. Matrix Nos, Comments)
So Data Size, Type, Length, Value Lists.
I will be building in as much detail/sorts/extracts/option of online/offline web connection, wanted lists, many databases, archived databases, bought info, sold info, attach as many jpegs as you want, etc, etc....

Good luck: there are millions just of USA-issued titles alone. I am not aware of any "free" central data base. Assuming you use a relational data base, the one you settle on will need to use a unique identifer to index each individual release ... the one I use is based on the UPC (bar code) no. originally issued for albums in the late 1970s/early 1980s, but expanded to include earlier recordings, going back to the 78s era, and which (for my purposes) allows me to group titles on different labels into related series.

Data entry could take considerable time, depending how inclusive you want your DB to be, how much information about each release you include, and the number of helpers you have. Take a look at web sites for Both Sides Now and Global Dog Productions, or any general records price guide (such as those from Goldmine or Jerry Osborne) just to get an idea of the enormity of the task.

You will probably also need a way to describe differences in label designs, at least for collectible issues, and thus a table for label images and a consistent method for cataloguing them ... also a table for sleeve/cover images should be a consideration, as well. Much depends on how complete/useful you intend your project be.

JMO, but matrix nos. probably should not be a consideration, as there can be notable variance between copies of the same title. OTOH master nos., when printed on the disk labels, should be considered for inclusion.
 
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Global_Dog_ProductionsOffline
Post subject: Re: Label / Record Data Items reqd for Vinyl/CD Database  PostPosted: May 08, 2012 - 10:44 PM
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annaloog wrote:
Quote:
... I am looking for the industry standard breakdown of the data items on a Record Label/CD Label and Data Items onthe actual Vinyl itself (e.g. Matrix Nos, Comments)
So Data Size, Type, Length, Value Lists.
I will be building in as much detail/sorts/extracts/option of online/offline web connection, wanted lists, many databases, archived databases, bought info, sold info, attach as many jpegs as you want, etc, etc....

Good luck: there are millions just of USA-issued titles alone. I am not aware of any "free" central data base. Assuming you use a relational data base, the one you settle on will need to use a unique identifer to index each individual release ... the one I use is based on the UPC (bar code) no. originally issued for albums in the late 1970s/early 1980s, but expanded to include earlier recordings, going back to the 78s era, and which (for my purposes) allows me to group titles on different labels into related series.

Data entry could take considerable time, depending how inclusive you want your DB to be, how much information about each release you include, and the number of helpers you have. Take a look at web sites for Both Sides Now and Global Dog Productions, or any general records price guide (such as those from Goldmine or Jerry Osborne) just to get an idea of the enormity of the task.


In 9 years by myself I've keyed 367,000 entries into a flat file database. The data entry you are looking at isn't pretty.

Discogs is trying to do what you want to do but one of the problems is the design of their database which can't deal with combined numbering systems, ie. a numbering system that uses the same numbers for multiple labels. EMI in Europe and a lot of the rest of the world had a combined numbering system with well over 20 labels in it and 45s, EPs and LPs were also included.

Discogs other big problem is data entry by folks that really don't know what it is about which generally creates a big mess such as UK Columbia numbers mixed in with US Columbia numbers. Garbage in equals garbage out.

Quote:
You will probably also need a way to describe differences in label designs, at least for collectible issues, and thus a table for label images and a consistent method for cataloguing them ... also a table for sleeve/cover images should be a consideration, as well. Much depends on how complete/useful you intend your project be.

JMO, but matrix nos. probably should not be a consideration, as there can be notable variance between copies of the same title. OTOH master nos., when printed on the disk labels, should be considered for inclusion.


Matrix (master) numbers printed on labels can even get messy with US east coast vs. US west coast pressings. For example Atlantic Records matrix numbers end with a hyphen and a two letter code to indicate who pressed it. On the west coast you will find a lot of them ending with "-MO" to indicate a Monarch pressing, on the east coast you'll find "-SP".

Likewise many labels can have multiple matrix numbers, for example both M-G-M and Motown at times will list at least two, one is the CBS matrix number and the other is the in house matrix number.

FYI, both Dot and Stax at times did at the bottom of the label included the month and year of issue. Most labels only include the year the song was "published" which may or may not the year it was issued.

Then there it knowing who the artist really is such as Paul Kane who actually is Paul Simon as in Simon & Garfunkel. This is from an email I got yesterday to give you an idea how crazy that can get...

Quote:
"Yankee Doodle Dandy was released on ERA in 1976 (not 1970). "Little Drummer Boy" was probably released that year as well. Both records originated with RCA Canada (with "Little Drummer Boy" being released in Canada in 1975). Herb Newman, the founder of ERA, died in the summer in 1976.

Clifton Ridgewood was actually the production team of myself and the late "Shakey" Al Werneken - he lived on Clifton Avenue and I lived on Ridgewood Avenue in Montreal at the time, thus the name.

Dave Tollington"


Good luck with your endeavor, I'm 9 years ahead of you and believe you are taking on a big task.

_________________
http://www.globaldogproductions.info/
 
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davekeeOffline
Post subject: Re: Label / Record Data Items reqd for Vinyl/CD Database  PostPosted: May 09, 2012 - 01:28 AM
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annaloog wrote:
Quote:
... I am looking for the industry standard breakdown of the data items on a Record Label/CD Label and Data Items onthe actual Vinyl itself (e.g. Matrix Nos, Comments)
So Data Size, Type, Length, Value Lists.
I will be building in as much detail/sorts/extracts/option of online/offline web connection, wanted lists, many databases, archived databases, bought info, sold info, attach as many jpegs as you want, etc, etc....

Good luck: there are millions just of USA-issued titles alone. I am not aware of any "free" central data base. Assuming you use a relational data base, the one you settle on will need to use a unique identifer to index each individual release ... the one I use is based on the UPC (bar code) no. originally issued for albums in the late 1970s/early 1980s, but expanded to include earlier recordings, going back to the 78s era, and which (for my purposes) allows me to group titles on different labels into related series.

Data entry could take considerable time, depending how inclusive you want your DB to be, how much information about each release you include, and the number of helpers you have. Take a look at web sites for Both Sides Now and Global Dog Productions, or any general records price guide (such as those from Goldmine or Jerry Osborne) just to get an idea of the enormity of the task.

You will probably also need a way to describe differences in label designs, at least for collectible issues, and thus a table for label images and a consistent method for cataloguing them ... also a table for sleeve/cover images should be a consideration, as well. Much depends on how complete/useful you intend your project be.

JMO, but matrix nos. probably should not be a consideration, as there can be notable variance between copies of the same title. OTOH master nos., when printed on the disk labels, should be considered for inclusion.


Many Thanks........ Well more info which all helps, it will be relational, I will look at the sites you mention.
I will research more and more, await a Record Label to send me their Database Entity Listings, and start my database design.
I do not intend to hold everything in the world ( but how good would that be), but be able to draw data down for ones own collection, so you could either draw down for a pressing or for a particular set/label soo you can 'tick' off what you have and know your target.
I think a good idea will be for me to post my database structure when I have a first draft, and it's navigation, that way I should see if I am on the right road.
Maybe, instead of many of us trying to build our own database, a central design team should be instigated, with that 'Central Database' in mind !
Cheers.............. Dave
 
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